reverb reverb reverb

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Fedol
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reverb reverb reverb

Post by Fedol » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:01 am

ok people, time to huff and puff

I've been given loads of advice during the last 12 months or so - most of it conflicting - and I try to experiment as much as possible but my main problem is reverb. My stuff is coming on leaps and bounds - I'm kinda at the stage where each time I write, it is far superior to what I wrote last - my knowledge is broadening daily and I'm spending prob 20-30 hrs a week writing and expermenting.

I am really struggling with using reverb to deepen my mix.

One thing I really notice on here is the use of reverb to give a really spacial feel and no matter how hard I try I just can't get it right - so I'm asking some of you to reveal just a couple of your most prized secrets to give me a little boost.

Starting points for hats - just a starting point - what rough settings do you apply when first putting down programmed beats(not sampled - they tend to be easier) I understand that this may be tweaked during the mixdown, but just a starting point when you first program beats.

I'm talking room size, pre-delay, decay, diffusion, dry, wet/reverb etc.

two more questions then I'm done.

Kiks. To reverb or not to reverb(I mean the main driving kik, not a section where you apply fx)

Same as above, but bass.

IThis is one area I just cannot seem to teach myself, and not having had the luxury of working with more experienced ppl I just don't seem to be getting it.

Disks full of goodies to anyone who would like to help


:shock:
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El Huracan
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Post by El Huracan » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:24 am

you will normally find as a rule (and dont forget there is no rules!) that you dont want to push your kit or bass to the back of the mix so none or very little reverb on either. the only things i might put a bit on is the snare but only really to fill space in a mix or help it cut through at a certain freq. butthe trick is experiment.
its work reading the studio engineers handbook too. lots of goodies in there
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Post by nectarios » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:48 am

I always apply tight reverbs on the hats/drums/percussion. I always aplly a little bit less than what I think is enough. Mastering will slightly bring all the reverbs up a bit in the end.
If you absolutely need to apply reverb on the kick/bass, make sure that the reverb send/return is high passed and there is nothing below 400Hz or even higher. Low end reverb just muds things up.
Other than that, the reverb unit/plug will make a huge difference. There some reverbs (Eclipse/PCMs/MPXs) where you simply choose a preset and they sound fantastic straight away. Just tweak the decay time to your licking. There's other that will just sound shit whatever you do.
Good reverbs made me use less parts in my tunes. Just enjoy the main parts and their subtle room nuances.
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Post by northernlight » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:50 pm

one of the best tipps i heard about reverb:

- EQ your reverb properly. try it out and you will hear it really makes a difference
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Post by Fedol » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:03 pm

nec wrote:I always apply tight reverbs on the hats/drums/percussion. I always aplly a little bit less than what I think is enough. Mastering will slightly bring all the reverbs up a bit in the end.
cheers fella - but when you say "tight" are you talking something like room size 25, decay 0.9ms ? Any pre-delay? This is the bit which does me......

I guessed the kik/bass bit, it wouldn't make sense to....

I should explain my problem more clearly - I cannot get my hats to sit in my mix - they're either too reverby, meaning they sit too far behind, or when they are brought forward by reducing the decay/room size, they kinda make the mix sound flat with no depth.....everything sitting too far forward.....

Jesus, I whinge like a bitch don't I.... :lol:
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Post by TakeRecords » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:27 pm

read www.mixingwithyourmind.com (banging on about it again :roll:) and you'll really begin to understand how to use reverb on drums and percussion to improve the groove. It doesn't tell you what settings to use but helps you to learn what to listen for when choosing settings.

I normally ease off massively on the kick drum or don't put it on at all - although many tunes have plenty of reverb on the kick. House music seems to use a lot more reverb on the kicks i have noticed.

good advice on rolling off the bass on the reverb.

I use TC reverb from a powercore which sounds great for almost everything. I don't like the way it sounds with percussion and will tend to use the reverb in cubase for that (which sounds pretty good these days).

There was a good thread on here about gating the reverb on your snare to make it sound loads bigger. This is a technique i tried and it sounds good - i'm planning on using it more extensively in the next tune that i'm writing to help remove reverb once it becomes inaudible against the other sounds in the mix.
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Walter Odington
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Post by Walter Odington » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:36 pm

i think nec is saying they should be closer to dry than audible (I could be wrong). Just remember its a balance - do you want them phat in your face or 'Guns n Roses' million miles away dripping with reverb. You have to be closer to one end of the scale - which one?

Less is more.


I often do my reverbs so that they finish decaying by the time the next hit of that instrument is happening. Otherwise the reverb is eating into the potential volume of my sound.

Kill the reverb!


PS setting number wont translate very well - every device has different value ranges decided by the designer. Even time scales will not be accurate...
"Once it has penetrated, a paralyzing saliva subdues the prey and the snail feeds at leisure, often beginning with the softest parts such as the gonads and gut."
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Walter Odington
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Post by Walter Odington » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:38 pm

ANd Dandy P is right about Mixig with Your Mind!!!
"Once it has penetrated, a paralyzing saliva subdues the prey and the snail feeds at leisure, often beginning with the softest parts such as the gonads and gut."
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Post by Fedol » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:45 pm

Walter, Dandy, buddhaboy, steelz, nec.......cheers boys.

I think I'm just frustrated - My stuff has come so far in just the last 3 months but it's those killer touches which (like NEC said) that allow you to use less elements to create huge sound which are eluding me.

it's more than just reverb I know, but this is one element I'm finding most frustrating.

Some good tips here, I'll post somethin up for you guys to shred in a week or so.... :lol:
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Post by northernlight » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:55 pm

nec wrote: Good reverbs made me use less parts in my tunes. Just enjoy the main parts and their subtle room nuances.
do you have any other good technics that make you use less elements?

it's something i always notice when comparing my stuff to released stuff. i have so many different elements going on, and it sounds nice when I listen to them playing all at the same time. but then when i start to arrange the track and have only a few elements playing at one time they sound weak and tiny, and there are huge wholes where the other elements have been. it's like when i remove an element, the other elements seem to lose power aswell.

ok, maybe i'm asking too much :D but a little hint would be very nice
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Post by Fedol » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:14 pm

I hate it when people bump their own posts but this just came to me....

are most break producers applying reverb "live" i.e. via a send, or exporting loops of beats, applying reverb then re-importing as an audio file "with" reverb?
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El Huracan
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Post by El Huracan » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:57 pm

live for me.
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Post by josh console » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:19 pm

live is better in most instances as with a loop the reverb will get cut off when the loop starts again
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Post by hayes » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:28 am

Walter Odington wrote:... so that they finish decaying by the time the next hit of that instrument is happening. Otherwise the reverb is eating into the potential volume of my sound.
Took me ages to discover that, it makes such a difference, especially with hats & percussion.
previously my tracks were getting muddier the longer they went on, drove me nuts.....
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Post by ButtonMonkey1 » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:50 am

1 Thing that may really help here is the use of Compression. I individually compress all my drum parts and in the case of hihats you may find that applying a ratio of 1:2 with a threshold of -3 then bringing up the gain to 0 (rough settings only please experiment) will really push the hihatz up again whilst retaining their reverby goodness without pushing them too far back in the mix!!! You may need to re-EQ them again post-comp.
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Post by nectarios » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:16 am

buddhaboy wrote:
nec wrote: Good reverbs made me use less parts in my tunes. Just enjoy the main parts and their subtle room nuances.
do you have any other good technics that make you use less elements?

it's something i always notice when comparing my stuff to released stuff. i have so many different elements going on, and it sounds nice when I listen to them playing all at the same time. but then when i start to arrange the track and have only a few elements playing at one time they sound weak and tiny, and there are huge wholes where the other elements have been. it's like when i remove an element, the other elements seem to lose power aswell.

ok, maybe i'm asking too much :D but a little hint would be very nice
Programming the patches carefully so I nail the sound I have in my mind. Its all down to what synths you use as well. 3 VCOs through an overdriven Moog or Prophet filter will take up almost all the space in the mix, especially if the cut-off is open. And the character that patch will carry will make any other synth line, redundant.
Another thing is believing in my arrangements. I've been partying for many years and in the kind of parties I am going to, it is the simple arrangements that get the floor moving the most. Stuff that I might think that sound too simple in my studio and need more elements in order to sound musically interesting, blow the roof in a club with a big P.A. and a packed dancefloor. My biggest tune had only 3 synth patches, a constant arpeggiated bassline that went throughout the duration of the tune with variation of the cut-off, a hook and a stab. Its all relative to where you've been partying and what stuff you are into. I am into simple minimal stuff with spacious mixes where people can enjoy the reverbs and general atmosphere.
My way of working would not suit someone who, for example, wants to make overcomplicated mixes that sound like a huge wall of frantic noise.
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Post by Fedol » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:54 am

nec wrote: Stuff that I might think that sound too simple in my studio and need more elements in order to sound musically interesting, blow the roof in a club with a big P.A. and a packed dancefloor. My biggest tune had only 3 synth patches, a constant arpeggiated bassline that went throughout the duration of the tune with variation of the cut-off, a hook and a stab. Its all relative to where you've been partying and what stuff you are into.
That's the shizzle that sends me mental....Big dirty bassline and occasional pings whoops and shrieks..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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