compression - by track and final mix

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Fedol
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compression - by track and final mix

Post by Fedol » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:29 pm

here's the deal -

I compress drum tracks, perc tracks etc for punch in the mix, and generally do it by ear.

however, when I apply compression to the final mix, is the overall compression linear? or does it factor up with the existing compression - for example:

snare - 5:1 , final mix 2:1

does this make overall 10:1 or 7:1

if it's the former, I've just realised that I've been squeezing the life out of my tunes, which sound punchy in-situ, but sound lifeless and flat with no depth elsewhere - especially after limiting the gerschizzle out of 'em with T-Racks to get 'em loud. Which means that mastering is actually fucking my stuff.

anybody have any tips on where to draw the line - I kow compression's been discussed a lot recently and views differ but any help would...erm.........help.

:?
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Post by El Huracan » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:36 pm

dont use t-racks. its shit
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Post by JIMMYCARBONE » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:41 pm

.......and so say all of us, for they are fucking shit, for they are fucking shit, T-racks are fucking shiiiiit, T-racks are fucking shiiiiiit, T-racks are fucking shiiiiiiit (cpu hoggers, crap, bastard bollox, wankers, overpriced, toilet juice)

and thats the end of that, BOOM, BOOOM !!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Fedol » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:07 pm

steelz wrote:dont use t-racks. its shit
Thanks to both of you, since your informative and detailed responses, I've had 3 tracks played on breaks FM, released 9 multi platinum albums, and had my balls sucked by Zoe Ball.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Image
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Post by Splashmash » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:16 pm

I've never used T-racks but according to a couple of Sound On Sound contributors it's pretty good!

In reponse to the original question. Compression ratios are multiplicative and not additive. So yes.. you are squeezing the life out of your tunes.
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Post by Fedol » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:21 pm

noyce wan brav
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Post by plazadefunk » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:32 pm

Well done getting your balls sucked by Zoe - although that probably means Norman won't be playing your tunes.

However - don't fucking touch T-Racks! :lol:

Seriously, I've tried it before, it's a great mastering tool if

- you are mastering a heavy metal tune
- you know EXACTLY what you are doing

Too easy to fuck shit up with multiband compression, plus T-Racks really is HEAVY!!

If you just need to give your tunes a bit of "oomph" on cd, I'd suggest you use a subtle L2 Ultramaximizer.
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Re: compression - by track and final mix

Post by alex_virr » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:38 pm

gypsee wrote: however, when I apply compression to the final mix, is the overall compression linear? or does it factor up with the existing compression - for example:

snare - 5:1 , final mix 2:1

does this make overall 10:1 or 7:1
the answer to your question is yes.

tiny bit of compression at the end IMO
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Fedol
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Post by Fedol » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:48 pm

nice.

I just seem to be obsessed with getting a loud end result which fits with other tracks - i.e. -same perceived output, rather than concentrating on the sound of the track itself and settling for lower volume. I roll off below 40hz and all that malarkey. any tips on where to roll off top end?

I've got ultramaximiser, so will now set about losing 3 months learning to use it.
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Post by plazadefunk » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:53 pm

gypsee wrote:nice.

I just seem to be obsessed with getting a loud end result which fits with other tracks - i.e. -same perceived output, rather than concentrating on the sound of the track itself and settling for lower volume. I roll off below 40hz and all that malarkey. any tips on where to roll off top end?

I've got ultramaximiser, so will now set about losing 3 months learning to use it.
try the "16 bit moderate limiting" preset and mess around with it.

works for me. 8)
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Post by Walter Odington » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:06 pm

JIMMYCARBONE wrote:.......and so say all of us, for they are fucking shit, for they are fucking shit, T-racks are fucking shiiiiit, T-racks are fucking shiiiiiit, T-racks are fucking shiiiiiiit (cpu hoggers, crap, bastard bollox, wankers, overpriced, toilet juice)


Annnnnnnd soooooo saayyyyy

alllllllllll

offfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff



uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuussssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!

do-do-do-da-du-dee-splash




echo splash: multipy

4:1 + 4:1 = 16:1 :shock:


Just have to learn to be moderate on your compression during tracking.

With the mastering, I say just be miild with a compressor... maybe a spot of limit. It is the limit that will ruin any punch your tunes have.

Also, boo to rolling off I say!! Why do it?!?

(ps my opinions are generally regarded as bollox ;) )
"Once it has penetrated, a paralyzing saliva subdues the prey and the snail feeds at leisure, often beginning with the softest parts such as the gonads and gut."
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Post by Fedol » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:18 pm

Walter Odington wrote:
Just have to learn to be moderate on your compression during tracking.

With the mastering, I say just be miild with a compressor... maybe a spot of limit. It is the limit that will ruin any punch your tunes have.
That's the one :( - during tracking I try to make it sound like it should after final compression - which is really a mastering trick to bring out the oopmh.

Nice work fellas.
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Post by Splashmash » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:53 pm

Walter Odington wrote: Also, boo to rolling off I say!! Why do it?!?
Cos all that bass which you can't hear anyway takes up a load of headroom. Roll of that really low bass and you can get your track sounding louder without as much nasty squishy limiting! Unless you're writing your tunes for Valve there's nowt to worry about. Most club sytem have their bass "punch" at 100 Hz and above.
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Post by h0ffman » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:39 pm

I use T-Racks (cuz I'm shit :P) but i never use the compressor, just the limiter. I only use it for a quick limit so I can play something out, not making it fucking loud, but just getting the peaks down a little.
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Post by Walter Odington » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:57 pm

Splashmash wrote:
Walter Odington wrote: Also, boo to rolling off I say!! Why do it?!?
Cos all that bass which you can't hear anyway takes up a load of headroom. Roll of that really low bass and you can get your track sounding louder without as much nasty squishy limiting! Unless you're writing your tunes for Valve there's nowt to worry about. Most club sytem have their bass "punch" at 100 Hz and above.

Pah - Give me the bassline an octave lower! ;)
"Once it has penetrated, a paralyzing saliva subdues the prey and the snail feeds at leisure, often beginning with the softest parts such as the gonads and gut."
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Post by dopamine » Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:03 pm

If you're after a good single band compressor for finalising then the Sonalksis is the best software compressor I have used.
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Post by neztic » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:23 pm

Try this free tool, very easy to use and it helps a lot to get your tunes louder/limited for playing out in just a couple of mouse clicks.

I have used it a couple of times and i think it sounds decent.

http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-master-limiter.php

CHEERS.
MANUEL
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Post by Splashmash » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:06 am

Walter Odington wrote:
Splashmash wrote:
Walter Odington wrote: Also, boo to rolling off I say!! Why do it?!?
Cos all that bass which you can't hear anyway takes up a load of headroom. Roll of that really low bass and you can get your track sounding louder without as much nasty squishy limiting! Unless you're writing your tunes for Valve there's nowt to worry about. Most club sytem have their bass "punch" at 100 Hz and above.

Pah - Give me the bassline an octave lower! ;)
Oh and vinyl rolls off below 60 Hz anyway...
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Post by SubtleGestures » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:20 am

youthful_implants - "tiny bit of compression at the end IMO"

2nded



About rolling off low frequencies: I roll everything 20 HZ and below OFF.... it is not needed in the mix at all... seeing as we can't hear anything that low - it makes no sense to have it sitting there clouding up the mix.



Gypsee - why would you compress everything in your song... and then go and do another final layer of compression at the pre-mastering stage???

You're totally overdoing it dude, BUT - if your tracks are coming out well enough, then you must be doing something right. ;)



The only COMP I use is at the end during mastering - and it's in the form of a limiter....

Just enough to bring the overall song out and make it full - w/out killing away my song's natural dynamics.

Works like a charm for me w/my mastering toy.
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Post by foxington » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:24 am

yeah recently i decided that my trax were sounding shite and making my ears tired really quickly, so i got rid of all the compression that i had been using and bam - they immediately sounded loads better! gonna concentrate on careful eq'ing before i put any compression in there, and even then it's only gonna be a wee bit i reckon :)
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