bit of advise needed ....

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klarky
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bit of advise needed ....

Post by klarky » Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:09 am

now i can actually find some time to sit down and attempt to make some music all i end up doing is messing about with pre sets of various soft kits/synths as opposed to actually writing a tune. i have an idea of what i want to create but kinda seem to drift off track, any suggestions on how to keep it focused??

so far all ive come up with are a few 8 bar loops and a few samples, ive been trying to copy the layout of a tune in a similar style to what i want to make but i just dont get anywhere.

just after some general tips on how to get stuff down and have the bones of a proper tune as opposed to some shitty e-jay sounding bunch of incoherant loops
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Post by shapshankly » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:23 pm

i find that one of the biggest productivity aids is to get an idea into audio when you're happy with it, that way you stop tweaking the sound infinitely.

i'll post some more up soon - just got to get on with recording a guys demo

take it easy, keep going you'll crack it in the end.
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Post by El Huracan » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:55 pm

buy an access virus. sample someone elses drums. make two breakdowns in your tunes one little one massive. insert movie samples. compress to fuck.
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Post by klarky » Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:58 pm

steelz wrote:buy an access virus. sample someone elses drums. make two breakdowns in your tunes one little one massive. insert movie samples. compress to fuck.

yeah thats the shizzle :lol:

have had a nosey round the internet and today i basically striped my room down, and by taking all the stuff out i dont need and putting my midi controler/micro korg on a smaller but better positioned table ive sort of managed to make the beginings of what i wanted.

also ive found today a simple drum kit set up ill use to get drums programmed then ill change the samples later - i always got caught up in finding the perfect sound before id even started, now ill try to just get the idea on the sequencer then fuck about with the acyual sounds
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Post by Walter Odington » Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:00 pm

/\ sounds like a good move rearranging the room

I think its good to try and limit the number of parts your tune has - try and make something with just one kit, bass, and lead. To qoute Dudley 'Variate' the parts over the whole length of a tune without adding more layers.
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Post by klarky » Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:11 pm

yeah, ive got it down to 1 kit, 2 bass still to find a lead and samples from a classical tune im using. hope to have something listenable tommorow.
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Post by northernlight » Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:17 pm

try to start with the arrangement as soon as possible.
after you have the following, you start arranging:

- drum
- bass
- lead
- pad

if you got the arrangement, you can start fleshing out breakdowns and buildups, adding another bassline, making variations of drums, bass and leads etc

oh, and another thing i have read on this forum: write everything you want to do down on paper. so you never loose an idea, you see what needs to be done, and you can mark of the stuff that you are done with. this helped me lots.
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Post by klarky » Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:47 pm

yeah the writing down is something im doing - ie "big fuck off skanking breakdown" or "lots of stabby violins or intro"

yeah im starting to see the best thing is to get a basic skeleton down, ie a 8 bar drum loop, they lay it out and strip back bits, like the intro and where i want the breaks to be. then fill in bass, lead and some sort of pad/ambient too.

think because its too clod to go out ive got my head down with ableton today and really got somewhere - all advise appreciated so far!!!
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Post by resistor » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:20 pm

its interesting to hear how everybody starts getting a track down .
theres no hard and fast rules , as we all know everybody works differently , but finding a basic routine that works for you is definantly the go .
ive always started out by collecting new drum sounds , some percussion ,samples ect . manicure and process each sample so they sound sweet before you even start arranging . fill up your sampler or whatever you use , put together a break .
once youve got the basic groove down , you can move onto a bassline , then pads , whatever , just get the backbone of the track down first, then you can fill it with all the other parts after.
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Post by Gecko » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:16 pm

buddhaboy wrote:try to start with the arrangement as soon as possible.
i don't agree with this. I think its much better start off writing a 8 or 16 bar loop that acts as the MAIN part of the song. Where u want to song to be at its fattest. Don't start arranging it till its more or less spot on

then play around muting parts in and out. Test which bits work well together. then arrange backwards from that, create an intro, diff fills and build the track up using all the elements.

i find sometimes if i start to arrange too soon u get to a point where u know it needs something else, but ur not sure what ?? this never happens if u create the main section first :)

d
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Re: bit of advise needed ....

Post by BigUpYa » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:15 pm

klarky wrote:now i can actually find some time to sit down and attempt to make some music all i end up doing is messing about with pre sets of various soft kits/synths as opposed to actually writing a tune. i have an idea of what i want to create but kinda seem to drift off track, any suggestions on how to keep it focused??

so far all ive come up with are a few 8 bar loops and a few samples, ive been trying to copy the layout of a tune in a similar style to what i want to make but i just dont get anywhere.

just after some general tips on how to get stuff down and have the bones of a proper tune as opposed to some shitty e-jay sounding bunch of incoherant loops







The answer is drugs.









The lord has spoken.



:p
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Post by shapshankly » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:15 pm

amen
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Post by alex_virr » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:44 pm

^ as above take loads and loads of coke, become really jaded with the world generally like I am and then your music will start to have meaning.

bang them shits out is what I'm saying. dont be afraid and for the first six months of writing music ignore everybody, especially people like me!! :P
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Post by Gecko » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:32 pm

steelz wrote:buy an access virus. sample someone elses drums. (!!!!! are u joking???!!) make two breakdowns in your tunes one little one massive. insert movie samples. compress to fuck.
youthful_implants wrote:bang them shits out
this is exactly what not to do.

unless of course you want to sound like every other chimp banging tunes out and diluting the scene with sub average toons.

music is an artform. making tunes should be a passion not a factory conveyor belt.
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Post by northernlight » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:35 pm

Gecko wrote:
buddhaboy wrote:try to start with the arrangement as soon as possible.
i find sometimes if i start to arrange too soon u get to a point where u know it needs something else, but ur not sure what ?? this never happens if u create the main section first :)

d
for me it's the other way arround

when i have arranged the stuff, i can hear where it's lacking, where to add a fill, or a second bassline, where a lead should drop in and what it should sound like.

different working methods i think :D
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Post by alex_virr » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:38 pm

Gecko wrote:
steelz wrote:buy an access virus. sample someone elses drums. (!!!!! are u joking???!!) make two breakdowns in your tunes one little one massive. insert movie samples. compress to fuck.
youthful_implants wrote:bang them shits out
this is exactly what not to do.

unless of course you want to sound like every other chimp banging tunes out and diluting the scene with sub average toons.

music is an artform. making tunes should be a passion not a factory conveyor belt.
nah. wrong - productivity is what counts
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Post by northernlight » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:40 pm

youthful_implants wrote:
Gecko wrote:
steelz wrote:buy an access virus. sample someone elses drums. (!!!!! are u joking???!!) make two breakdowns in your tunes one little one massive. insert movie samples. compress to fuck.
youthful_implants wrote:bang them shits out
this is exactly what not to do.

unless of course you want to sound like every other chimp banging tunes out and diluting the scene with sub average toons.

music is an artform. making tunes should be a passion not a factory conveyor belt.
nah. wrong - productivity is what counts
i would say: finish the god damn tune

if you feeling that it's still good enough after a year, redo the stuff you aren't happy with.
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Post by alex_virr » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:30 pm

buddhaboy wrote:
youthful_implants wrote:
Gecko wrote:
steelz wrote:buy an access virus. sample someone elses drums. (!!!!! are u joking???!!) make two breakdowns in your tunes one little one massive. insert movie samples. compress to fuck.
youthful_implants wrote:bang them shits out
this is exactly what not to do.

unless of course you want to sound like every other chimp banging tunes out and diluting the scene with sub average toons.

music is an artform. making tunes should be a passion not a factory conveyor belt.
nah. wrong - productivity is what counts
i would say: finish the god damn tune

if you feeling that it's still good enough after a year, redo the stuff you aren't happy with.
yeah i totally second that. this business about it being an artform is a metaphorical misnomer or red herring. breaks is a criteria specific sub genre of dance music - it certainly isnt 'art'

what sets a an average producer from a great one isn't any understanding of this so-called 'artform' but a skill-set, experience base and product knowledge that the other doesn't have. I know guys who know a zillion times more than me about the technical nature of electronic music, its component parts and how they're put together. But these guys don't write music despite this staggering expertise. You know why? Because they are literally overwhelmed with possibility and/or have no song-writing skills. knowing how to make shit sound good is no advantage really in terms of song-writing - you can worry about that shit later. Its your ideas that matter. If I really agonized that much over the technical detailing of every sound I use I'd never get anything done. I'd just be wanking over its potential - my advice: BANG THEM out, do it like you mean it and move on.

if I had a penny for the musicians I know/have known that practically hemorrhage talent or proficiency and yet who don't get jack shit done I could buy myself a double cheeseburger. Mostly due to lack of discipline, application and pro-activity.
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Post by shapshankly » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:27 pm

i think there is a balance to be struck, and what mr implants is hinting at in the above post is this:

the people that "make it" in the industry are generally the ones that aren't the most talented in musical (or perhaps production) terms, but are the ones who have the desire and sense to get things moving (along with a decent helping of musical talent).

i think music is an artform, and i love really technically amazing (in both song writing and production senses) songs/pieces/whatever.

i find with breaks that ultimately you do have to just get on with it as, at the end of the day, no-one in a club is going to really pay attention to that amazing chord voicing, that subtle genius bit of programming or whatever. either the tune rocks or it doesn't.

i create breaks and i also create music that i would class as art. the art stuff takes longer and in many ways is never as complete as the breaks stuff. however, you can sit down and listen to an album of it and not get bored. the trick is to make sure that the time spent on the piece is justified in the finished product (and it has to be finished). No point continuing to write and change bits of songs when realistically you know it's never going to be quite there. but you only realise this from producing a decent catalogue of music.


phew, that was a bit train of conscience there for a second.
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Post by Gecko » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:57 pm

yeah fuk it. lets just make more and more music that sounds the same as every other feckin record in the shop. as long as its almost as good as the records that sit in the same box then thats great.

and when i'm old and look back over my life I'll feel proud that i was part of a scene that never progressed. as long as people pop the beans and bounce to the beats then who gives a fuck anyway.

I know i'm going off on one,,... i agree that people should aim to finish a track. its good to see something through. buts its just the term 'bang it out' that gets on my tits. why should anyone bang it out? why not take time over something you feel passionate about and make a record that inspires generations to come. don't aim at being just average. aim at being someone who people will look back at in years to come and thank for there ideas and talents.
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