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SubtleGestures
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Post by SubtleGestures » Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:25 am

Whoever said that limiting was the way to go in the last "mastering" thread was on point.


After playing w/my mastering toy for a couple months now..... I also agree that limiting a well done mix is the best way to get a great sound.

I think multi band compression is too tricky.

I'm finding that if a mix is done well, limiting and maybe a hair of multi band excitement is all that is needed.


So, whoever was telling me that in the other "M" thread was dead on.
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Post by dopamine » Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:06 am

It's fairly well known (well, obviously not that well known) that a limiter is the last processor in the mastering chain. It's how you get the percieved loudness by squashing the dynamics from your mix and setting a brickwall at the level you set.

A compressor is used before the limiter and eq either before or after the compression stage. Usually not more than that (except for some high end ad/da depending on the equipment used).

Multi band compression can be tricky and a lot of professional studios dont even use them. I know the Floating Point studio (breaking point) doesn't have one and I dont think Heathmans use them either. I have two! I'm a bit wierd though.... ;)
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Post by macrocosm » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:53 pm

Actually really impressed with the L3 Multimaximiser. Seem to getting pretty nice sounding results - although it's much more of a science getting it right
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Post by SubtleGestures » Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:24 pm

See, that's the thing - after playing w/this toy for a couple months.... I don't want to "squash" anything.

All I want is for my mixes to come out loud and solid... no squashing by way of compression.

I don't use compression at all... just limiting. I only limit enough to bring my tracks up to a solid level.



squashing is bad :(

it's real easy to ruin a track w/compression if one doesn't know what they're doing
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Post by shapshankly » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:05 pm

limiting = a type of compression.
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Post by SubtleGestures » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:57 am

Yeah, they're similar





but they both do different things...
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Post by shapshankly » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:15 am

they both decrease the dynamic range.

typical compression and typical limiting are two different applications of a compressor.

try it yourself, set your compressor to an extremely high ratio, the attack fairly quick, release medium, and set the threshold relatively high, this is brick walling your audio. you can now increase the make up gain and bang, your audio is limited.
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Post by SubtleGestures » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:29 am

Compression in my experience limits dynamics WAY more than a limiter does. If the mixdown is solid and the limiting is done correctly - you shouldn't lose any dynamics. That's how my stuff is coming out anyway, I don't know how you do your limiting, but if you're killing off dynamics; you might wanna take a step back to see what you're doing wrong.



Too much limiting - you have to worry about stuff getting squashed in the mix.... SDs and bass parts hitting at the same time - the bass will win most of the time.


Too much compression - you get this whack pumping effect which sucks more than anything.


I've only been doing my own pre-mastering for a couple months now.
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Post by Walter Odington » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:11 am

limit and die!



(I'm also a hypocrite)
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Post by Splashmash » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:08 pm

A limiter is a compressor with a ratio of more than about 10:1.

It actually squashes more than a compressor does.

But if you're careful with the threshold then you won't squish the mix too much.
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Post by SubtleGestures » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:12 pm

no kiddin




My tool does most of the work for me, so that's probably why I'm getting such good results.
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Post by Splashmash » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:22 pm

Here we go...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_level_compression

But yeah, what you get out depends on how you use it really.
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Post by nectarios » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:38 pm

SubtleGestures wrote:Compression in my experience limits dynamics WAY more than a limiter does.
I don't undersand why you need to be so extreme with everything. Compressors don't limit dynamics more than a limiter unless you program them to.
On the contrary, for a given threshold, a limiter limits dynamics more than a compressor simply because the compression ratio is much bigger, and as already stated, there are certain settings where a compressor becomes effectively, a limiter.
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Post by dopamine » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:56 pm

ALT + F4 ;)
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Post by 7 below » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:34 pm

Ok... the easy way to look at it is that a limiter is a compressor, BUT:

With both you set the threshold, attack and release... however with a normal compressor you set the ratio not the ceiling.

With a limiter you set the ceiling - i.e 0db mostly. The ratio is then determined by how much squashing needs to occur to get your waveform under that barrier....

Compressor - set the ratio, ceiling determined by ratio
Limiter - set the ceiling, ratio determined by ceiling


Pretty simple really
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Post by shapshankly » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:42 pm

dopamine wrote:ALT + F4 ;)
:D
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Post by SubtleGestures » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:43 am

i hate u Dopamine




It's nice having a tool that does everything for you..... I think most kids these days are using fancy tools to do their pre-mastering anyways... it's nothing new.. well, for me it is...



Pretty much anyone can make this music now - and everyone has access to the tools whether they pay for them or not.
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Post by dopamine » Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:39 am

SubtleGestures wrote:i hate u Dopamine
That's a strange thing to say considering we've never met. I harbour no ill feelings towards you.

Don't you have a sense of humour?
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Post by SubtleGestures » Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:50 am

sure i do


go fuck yourself










how's that
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dopamine
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Post by dopamine » Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:07 am

Real mature.

Ok, i'll not bother you anymore Chris. I thought you were an adult but I was wrong.

Good luck to you for the future, I wish you all the best.

Matt
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