Mixdown secrets....... and hot tips

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Post by Moshi » Tue May 16, 2006 9:41 pm

I've got a mixdown secret for your kick i learned at school...


If you need sub in yr kick..
Gate the kik you have, so you just get a short attack you will use to localize the sub you will add.

Then get a sinegenerator on one of yr tracks, or any other divice that allows you to generate a single sinewave at any frequency. Then install a gate on that track (yes you could have guessed it) and select your original kick as the sidechain of your gate. Adjust the hold and release of yr gate to fit. Tune your sinegenerator to fit the track, around 50 or 60 Hz whatever.

everytime yr kick hits, the gate will open and the vibrations in yr belly will tell you that you have just added some nice sub to your kick.

be subtle with this, and you might choose to turn that track of while mixing because it makes yr ears very tired.....only if you care that is...
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Post by shapshankly » Tue May 16, 2006 10:27 pm

Anti-science wrote:
shapshankly wrote:i don't think that i can labour this point enough, but....

write a fucking tune. don't sit pissing around with 2 or 3 db of eq cut or cocking around with compression.

write the fucking tune. concentrate on the music and leave mixing it down till the end. stick on your crazy effects to get the sound you want, definately, but don't sit letting your creativity go cold while you grapple with shit.

to aid this, spend time making sounds not tunes. that way you'll have a palatte to draw on when ideas come knocking and you don't have to waste your time creating something.

doing this will pretty much every time yield a better result.

let's face it, at the end of the day it's about music, not which compressor you used.
Yes this is true. I was going to say it but if you read the title this is a Mixdown and tips thread! Wheres your???

:lol:
jeez. :roll:
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Post by hutson » Wed May 17, 2006 4:14 am

B-Listah wrote:
hutson wrote: ----------
Take breaks every 45 minutes... listen to low level pink noise... walk around... get some air... do whatever 'resets' you.
----------
and stuff
What's this all about then Hutson? very interested - is this some kind of "brain clearer" - one thing I'm terrible at is gettin sucked into the mix i'm doin and not taking respite/rest, meaning i can't be objective and end up with a weird ass mix

Been recommended on this by several engineers i trust completely. Basically about reseting your ears and focus. This is when you start making those mix mistakes... or overmixing. i'm sure some people can work longer... it's just a general rule to keep up productivity.
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Post by dopamine » Wed May 17, 2006 9:19 am

Don't use pads. They suck the energy from your track.
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Post by fathabit » Wed May 17, 2006 9:30 am

shapshankly wrote:i don't think that i can labour this point enough, but....

write a fucking tune. don't sit pissing around with 2 or 3 db of eq cut or cocking around with compression.

write the fucking tune. concentrate on the music and leave mixing it down till the end. stick on your crazy effects to get the sound you want, definately, but don't sit letting your creativity go cold while you grapple with shit.

to aid this, spend time making sounds not tunes. that way you'll have a palatte to draw on when ideas come knocking and you don't have to waste your time creating something.

doing this will pretty much every time yield a better result.

let's face it, at the end of the day it's about music, not which compressor you used.
Whey, exactly what he said!! write good music first
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Binster (AKA Dr.Awkward)
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Post by Binster (AKA Dr.Awkward) » Wed May 17, 2006 9:50 am

dopamine wrote:Don't use pads. They suck the energy from your track.
Not sure I agree with that.
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Post by shapshankly » Wed May 17, 2006 10:07 am

i'm not sure i agree either binster.

pads done right are exquisite. perhaps he just means over-done pads!
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Post by Doomo » Wed May 17, 2006 10:16 am

Moshi wrote:I've got a mixdown secret for your kick i learned at school...


If you need sub in yr kick..
Gate the kik you have, so you just get a short attack you will use to localize the sub you will add.

Then get a sinegenerator on one of yr tracks, or any other divice that allows you to generate a single sinewave at any frequency. Then install a gate on that track (yes you could have guessed it) and select your original kick as the sidechain of your gate. Adjust the hold and release of yr gate to fit. Tune your sinegenerator to fit the track, around 50 or 60 Hz whatever.

everytime yr kick hits, the gate will open and the vibrations in yr belly will tell you that you have just added some nice sub to your kick.

be subtle with this, and you might choose to turn that track of while mixing because it makes yr ears very tired.....only if you care that is...
I use a plugin called MDA subsynth to do exactly this. It takes the original signal, generates a sub note at whatever frequency you specify, (that is very clean) and mixes it back in with the signal. A crude but very useful free VST plugin
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Post by nectarios » Wed May 17, 2006 10:17 am

dopamine wrote:Don't use pads. They suck the energy from your track.
I used to think that too a couple of years ago and made sure I only used stabs to get a similar effect that would also be driving along nicely. Pads dropped the tension and made everythig moody straight away...Yet the pad/line thingy on "David" is stellar and is the main driving force of the track.
I thought pads were only good in breakdowns/intros/outros. Plus I found all VSTs shit for pads, besides Absynth, but that one was very specific and had a lot of things happening, that did not sound so good when in the mix. Also although some might argue, but the Virus B I did not like for pads either...the Nord was alright, but the Juno 60 was absolutely fantastic and we used that one with Vigi lots. Got an EXS sample library of vintage synths that has fantastic pads that I always reach for when I want a pad sound. Its the sound and the chord/sequence that makes the difference. Anyway I did a new tune going that has droney pads and works fine on the floor.
Last edited by nectarios on Wed May 17, 2006 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Doomo » Wed May 17, 2006 10:26 am

soapdodger wrote:
mambo dave wrote:WHAT!? ^^^^^ :O

am i being a knob and taking you seriously? :oops:

yeah mate, once you get into listening to sub rather than feeling it.

most buget monitors roll off a 60-55 hertz. Headphones go much lower.

60hz is the upper en of sub bass, all the action is from 50-20hz.
There is a sound logic in this. The good thing about using headphones is the bass you hear is not fecked up by room acoustics.

Personally though, I like to use my subwoofer for tuning the bass.

an alternative approach is to find a record that has a similar balance and frequency of sub bass that you want in your tune (its important that you are comparing almost like for like on the notes used). turn it up pretty loud. observe how far the bass drivers are moving to produce the bass. Then, play your tune so the overall volume sounds the same, and check to see if the bass drivers are moving a similar distance on the bassnotes. If they are jumping out their mounts then the bass is too much, if they arent moving as far then you need to turn it up a little. This is a very crude but effective approach even when using pants speakers.
its all about how far the drivers are having to move to produce the bass, ultimately, that is a pretty accurate representation of how much power is beng consumed, ie volume level. This will translate to any system.
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Post by alex_virr » Wed May 17, 2006 10:33 am

dopamine wrote:Don't use pads. They suck the energy from your track.
oh please don't say that. :cry:
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Post by dopamine » Wed May 17, 2006 10:41 am

I use drone type of pads, there's one in my new tune actually but i find way too many people just chuck a pad in there to "pad it out". Sounds terrible when done badly and does suck the life out of a tune and drain all the energy.

Of course it was a blanket statement and yes there's loads of ways of using pads to great effect but too many people use it as the easy way out (just like bunging a 303 line in there).

Excellent use of pads = Kraymon's new tune. Fantastic.
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Post by dopamine » Wed May 17, 2006 10:43 am

I use drone type of pads, there's one in my new tune actually but i find way too many people just chuck a pad in there to "pad it out". Sounds terrible when done badly and does suck the life out of a tune and drain all the energy.

Of course it was a blanket statement and yes there's loads of ways of using pads to great effect but too many people use it as the easy way out (just like bunging a 303 line in there).

Excellent use of pads = Kraymon's new tune. Fantastic.
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Post by soapdodger » Wed May 17, 2006 10:53 am

Tarekith, I'm listening to a 20hz sine wave on my headphones now and I can heaar it no prob,

I know some peeps say you cant hear sub bass on headphones cos the waveform is several feet long. But that is plainly bollocks. If the distance the driver is from your ear played a part the 2cm an average headphione driver is from your ear would mean that they would only produce frequencies above 10,000 hz. This is clearly not the case.

even the most basic headphones will go down to 5hz
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Post by uncle jam » Wed May 17, 2006 10:53 am

mambo dave wrote:WHAT!? ^^^^^ :O

am i being a knob and taking you seriously? :oops:
I heard MJ Cole used to use Headphones for this too Dave !
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Post by alex_virr » Wed May 17, 2006 11:02 am

dopamine wrote:I use drone type of pads, there's one in my new tune actually but i find way too many people just chuck a pad in there to "pad it out". Sounds terrible when done badly and does suck the life out of a tune and drain all the energy.

Of course it was a blanket statement and yes there's loads of ways of using pads to great effect but too many people use it as the easy way out (just like bunging a 303 line in there).

Excellent use of pads = Kraymon's new tune. Fantastic.
seen :D
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Post by Ben » Wed May 17, 2006 3:35 pm

soapdodger wrote:I know some peeps say you cant hear sub bass on headphones cos the waveform is several feet long. But that is plainly bollocks.
Yep cause you dont just hear the peak of the wave, as long as the air is moving you'l hear it.
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Post by mambo dave » Wed May 17, 2006 7:07 pm

soapdodger wrote:Tarekith, I'm listening to a 20hz sine wave on my headphones now and I can heaar it no prob,

I know some peeps say you cant hear sub bass on headphones cos the waveform is several feet long. But that is plainly bollocks. If the distance the driver is from your ear played a part the 2cm an average headphione driver is from your ear would mean that they would only produce frequencies above 10,000 hz. This is clearly not the case.

even the most basic headphones will go down to 5hz
The only reason the most basic headphones go down to 5hz is because they dont filter the signal. I reckon you aren't actually hearing a 20hz wave at all, you're just hearing harmonics of it caused by the headphones distorting.

to be honest I haven't got a clue but I know that my headphones certainly can't reproduce low frequencies without distorting. Sure you can hear a 20hz tone, but it sure as hell has a lot of other crap in with it...

At the end of the day, if you want your music played on speakers, mix on speakers imo. Especially with large amounts of bass because you can see how much the speakers move and compare with other tracks, just like Damo said.


gotta agree about the pads draining energy, they eat up dynamic range imo...
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Post by shapshankly » Wed May 17, 2006 8:20 pm

turn the pads down, but you need something in there!!

you'll be amazed how often people have them too loud in the mix, that drains the energy!!
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Post by BLista » Wed May 17, 2006 10:52 pm

mambo dave wrote:
soapdodger wrote:Tarekith, I'm listening to a 20hz sine wave on my headphones now and I can heaar it no prob,

I know some peeps say you cant hear sub bass on headphones cos the waveform is several feet long. But that is plainly bollocks. If the distance the driver is from your ear played a part the 2cm an average headphione driver is from your ear would mean that they would only produce frequencies above 10,000 hz. This is clearly not the case.

even the most basic headphones will go down to 5hz
The only reason the most basic headphones go down to 5hz is because they dont filter the signal. I reckon you aren't actually hearing a 20hz wave at all, you're just hearing harmonics of it caused by the headphones distorting.
to be honest I haven't got a clue but I know that my headphones certainly can't reproduce low frequencies without distorting. Sure you can hear a 20hz tone, but it sure as hell has a lot of other crap in with it...

At the end of the day, if you want your music played on speakers, mix on speakers imo. Especially with large amounts of bass because you can see how much the speakers move and compare with other tracks, just like Damo said.


gotta agree about the pads draining energy, they eat up dynamic range imo...
werd. headphones schmedphones
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