song structure

Seek advice, post tracks, help others, discuss studio hardware and software - from studio pros to beginners, all are welcome...

Moderators: Plexus, jimmy brayks, NSB Mods

User avatar
hayes
Poster-lite
Poster-lite
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:09 pm
Location: LoNdiNiUm

Post by hayes » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:06 pm

strategy wrote:as soon as i've got a few parts layed down that i'm happy-ish with, i try and get a rough arrangement down - it's much easier to add to your arrangement as you go along rather than wait til you've got 25 tracks then try and arrange it all, plus it's easier to see what you need to add in if you have a rough layout to work with :)

aye that would make sense!

Ive noticed that a lot of people also tend to start with the most hectic part of the tune, ie: the riff/peak of the tune and then remove / apply effects to create the intro/outro/builds etc and that certainly makes a lot of sense too.

Unfortunately i actually like to start at the begining and build it up see what happens so i could well be shooing myself in the arse ther but its just how i prefer to do it.
capital radio causes cancer
User avatar
northernlight
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 2133
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Sauna
Contact:

Post by northernlight » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:34 pm

i start to make a very rough arrangment as soon is i have drums, bass, lead and a pad.

form this arrangment i start to work on different parts. i just work on what inspires me. sometimes i start with the intro, sometimes with the big break. so i work on this part till it's good or i get bored and move on to the next part.

so one part after another gets done. after i have all the parts finished i will listen to the arramngement as a whole over and over. there you can easily spot what's missing and what's too long or too short.

it's like painting. first you zoom out and get a rough scetch. then you zoom in and work on the details. then you zoom out again to see the whole picture. you notice some stuff you don't like and zoom in again.
User avatar
alex_virr
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 25192
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:13 pm
Location: technaux
Contact:

Post by alex_virr » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:48 pm

just like to quickly say that I find writing new parts for my tunes no problem - and usually end up with way too many melodic elements to make sense of in 7 minutes.

so as a challenge I try to keep the actual lead parts - pad/lead/bass to a minimum and once I have the main riffs sorted really concentrate on using samples or FX to space it out.

thats the most fun part of writing tunes for me is finding those esoteric bits that don't necessarily jump out of the speakers and grab you like a bassline will, but with repeated listens you notice and go: 'wow that is, like so cool.'

Also definitely worth bearing in mind that for the climax in your track it can be as simple as layering heavily FXed parts to give that final section the impact it deserves.

Its all about the subliminal shit.
Strontium Music

Image

SOUNDCLOUD | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TUMBLR
BLista
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 46065
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:37 am

Post by BLista » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:59 pm

i too start with the most hectic part, building as much shit in as I can - I then find buildups for the drop before much easier to construct.

I was told to never mixdown while you work, but i've found it much more time efficient to eq as I go - there's nothing worse than bulding a track which sounds pretty much done, to then EQ and filter off unwanted freqs, only to do it and realise you need more and more stuff to fill it out.

saying that, i've been concentrating on fattening up sounds to fill the soundstage rather than adding more which just turns into a freq frenzy.

just my 2 penneth worth.......
User avatar
Hedflux
Addicted to NSB
Addicted to NSB
Posts: 1016
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:03 pm
Location: Norwich

Post by Hedflux » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:20 pm

when i was at seone breakspoll after party, in the bassline breaks room at 5am, i was taking notes on song structure:

<reggae breakdown>
<bassdrum roll building to climax>
<short unpredictable pause>
<drum fill>
<drop>
<2 minutes of beats and bassline>
<another reggae breakdown>
<bassdrum roll building to climax>
<short predictable pause>
<drum fill>
<drop>
<2 minutes of beats and bassline>

enter next tune:

<reggae breakdown>
<bassdrum roll building to climax>
<short unpredictable pause>
<drum fill>
<drop>
<2 minutes of beats and bassline>
<another reggae breakdown>
<bassdrum roll building to climax>
<short predictable pause>
<drum fill>
<drop>
<2 minutes of beats and bassline>

Enter next tune...

ad nauseum ...

There you go. You can play with that formula too - like instead of a reggae breakdown, you can add in the pink panther theme! :D
User avatar
foxington
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 33152
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 4:16 pm
Location: sarf

Post by foxington » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:25 pm

:lol: :lol:
User avatar
alex_virr
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 25192
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:13 pm
Location: technaux
Contact:

Post by alex_virr » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:32 pm

if it aint BROKE, dont fix it.

bassline stuff is often stop/start by nature - which is why people jump up and down to it.

I've seen paul van dyke play a four hour set which didn't have a breakdown 'til well into the third hour but no one was moving.

there's boring, and then there's bo-ring.
Strontium Music

Image

SOUNDCLOUD | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TUMBLR
User avatar
Hedflux
Addicted to NSB
Addicted to NSB
Posts: 1016
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:03 pm
Location: Norwich

Post by Hedflux » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:32 pm

strategy wrote::lol: :lol:
:lol: yea you remember! :D

Its the only time i've left a breaks night with a headache.
User avatar
Hedflux
Addicted to NSB
Addicted to NSB
Posts: 1016
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:03 pm
Location: Norwich

Post by Hedflux » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:38 pm

youthful_implants wrote:if it aint BROKE, dont fix it.

bassline stuff is often stop/start by nature - which is why people jump up and down to it.

I've seen paul van dyke play a four hour set which didn't have a breakdown 'til well into the third hour but no one was moving.

there's boring, and then there's bo-ring.
dont get me wrong - i was jumpin about too - i would have went to another room if i wasnt feelin it - i can appreciate it for what it is. However, the tunes had no distinction from each other, and the structure was so predictable it all started to feel a bit pointless.
User avatar
alex_virr
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 25192
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:13 pm
Location: technaux
Contact:

Post by alex_virr » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:48 pm

Hedflux wrote:
youthful_implants wrote:if it aint BROKE, dont fix it.

bassline stuff is often stop/start by nature - which is why people jump up and down to it.

I've seen paul van dyke play a four hour set which didn't have a breakdown 'til well into the third hour but no one was moving.

there's boring, and then there's bo-ring.
dont get me wrong - i was jumpin about too - i would have went to another room if i wasnt feelin it - i can appreciate it for what it is. However, the tunes had no distinction from each other, and the structure was so predictable it all started to feel a bit pointless.
tell me about it - the desolation and futility I've felt at countless drum n bass nights cannot be undone, that formula is older than my girlfriend. a bassline producer (who I won't name) told me in all seriousness once that there were only two or three templates for any arrangement that will work in dance music. I said nothing.
Strontium Music

Image

SOUNDCLOUD | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TUMBLR
User avatar
northernlight
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 2133
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Sauna
Contact:

Post by northernlight » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:08 pm

- 49 bars beat-build up with FX-Sounds and short voice samples

- 16 bars breakdown with drumfill at the end

- 64 bars rinse out

- 16 or 32 bars breakdown with even more drumfills

- 64 bars till the end removing one element after another

here you got the arrangment from 7 out of 10 breaks tracks
User avatar
Tarekith
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 4511
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:21 pm
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Post by Tarekith » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:08 pm

I tend to get a rough song structure going as I'm working on the tune, and sometime that will eventually become the final arrangement. More often than not though, once I have all of my main parts recorded, I tend to go back and start arranging all over again.

Arranging and mixdowns are my favorite aspects of making music, so many time I'll go through three or four different variations of each before I find the 'the one'.
InnerPortalStudio.com Electronic Music Mastering & Mixdowns. Click for details!
User avatar
hippy dave
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 30453
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:11 pm
Location: the illusion of confusion

Post by hippy dave » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:21 pm

Hedflux wrote:<short unpredictable pause>
these always pish me off :badgrin:
User avatar
Hedflux
Addicted to NSB
Addicted to NSB
Posts: 1016
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:03 pm
Location: Norwich

Post by Hedflux » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:22 pm

buddhaboy wrote:- 49 bars beat-build up with FX-Sounds and short voice samples

- 16 bars breakdown with drumfill at the end

- 64 bars rinse out

- 16 or 32 bars breakdown with even more drumfills

- 64 bars till the end removing one element after another

here you got the arrangment from 7 out of 10 breaks tracks
its always that unexpected 49th bar that ruins my Dj mixes :(

;)
User avatar
northernlight
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 2133
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Sauna
Contact:

Post by northernlight » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:25 pm

Hedflux wrote:
buddhaboy wrote:- 49 bars beat-build up with FX-Sounds and short voice samples

- 16 bars breakdown with drumfill at the end

- 64 bars rinse out

- 16 or 32 bars breakdown with even more drumfills

- 64 bars till the end removing one element after another

here you got the arrangment from 7 out of 10 breaks tracks
its always that unexpected 49th bar that ruins my Dj mixes :(

;)
64 bars

:chin:
Elliot
Noob
Noob
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:19 pm

Post by Elliot » Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:00 pm

For me all i'm thinking about is

start a groove something to mix into
build it up
bring in bass line
breakdown
build up
do its thing
may be repeat from build up
then subtract stuff untill the beat for mixing out at the end

done
User avatar
alex_virr
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 25192
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:13 pm
Location: technaux
Contact:

Post by alex_virr » Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:19 pm

its all about the middle eight.

take it the bridge - NHUH!!! :lol:
Strontium Music

Image

SOUNDCLOUD | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TUMBLR
soapdodger
Addicted to NSB
Addicted to NSB
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:34 am

Post by soapdodger » Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:47 pm

take it to the bridge, chuck it off!
The music business is a cruel and mallow honey stench, a mong spastic hallway where sieves and plumps bum free, and good dogs die like men. There's also a vegative side.

Munter S. Thompson
User avatar
hippy dave
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 30453
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:11 pm
Location: the illusion of confusion

Post by hippy dave » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:34 pm

i'm loving that my lazy moan, with cow icon, has turned into quite an interesting thread, keep it up :D
dance your cares away, worries for another day Image
emskina flange wrote:holy calamity boob insanity
Post Reply