Why Did I Buy Abelton Live?

edb · Post by **edb** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:41 pm

quick quote from a v interesting interview with Tony Coleman, of London Elektricity fame:

"When I got it, we had this theory that all programs made audio sound different, so we sat down and we put some Villa-Lobos in, and some Ry Cooder, really hi-fi music, in Cubase VST, the Reason sampler, Pro Tools, Nuendo, Logic, Recycle, just to see, and the differences were quite amazing. You need to sit down and do it in a controlled situation. They've all got different audio engines, so they all sound different. So far, Nuendo has come out tops. Pro Tools is hi-fi, but Nuendo does sound quite different from Pro Tools, even using the same hardware, same computer, everything.
"Cubase VST, not SX, is actually really good for drum & bass, because it adds a certain hardness to the sound. It's not 100 percent hi-fi, but it adds a certain something to it which really gives it added punch. On a couple of tunes on the album, I had done them in Nuendo, but they were sounding too 'bling' and not rough enough, and I put them into VST and they got a kind of roughness, even without using the EQ — just from playback. Reason is an amazing piece of software, but a complaint that some people had about it is that sounds disappear in it. There's a compromise in Reason because the file size is diminished — you put an audio file into it, and when you save it as a self-contained file which includes all the audio data, it's smaller. There is a sonic compromise which enables them to get so much power out of a modest processor, and you do lose stuff in there.

that stuff about reason sounds a bit funny tho

rest of the interview here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep03/a ... ricity.htm

Splashmash · Post by **Splashmash** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:40 pm

Interesting.

There is no underestimating how much user-interface, expectations etc can affect someone's perception.

The only objective way to test is by exporting to a soundfile and doing a sample by sample comparison.

Another good way is to phase invert one and sum them. If you get nothing then both sound the same!

shiftcrack · Post by **shiftcrack** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:26 pm

Just quickly, in LIVE5 you can hide channels.. (well makes them this - big). Even if you couldn't you can just move them to the far tight out of the way.

shapshankly · Post by **shapshankly** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:04 pm

shiftcrack wrote:Just quickly, in LIVE5 you can hide channels.. (well makes them this - big). Even if you couldn't you can just move them to the far tight out of the way.

you can, but it's a bit clunky for my liking.

afdafsf · Post by **afdafsf** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:28 am

"slow copy & paste"

wtf are u talking about - that shit is lightning fast on my comp

"possibly the worst thing for me, the lack of ability to just draw in a clip that you can then edit."

ummmm, do you even know how to operate live dude

ignorance is bliss

DarK:Side · Post by **DarK:Side** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:41 am

that's true about reason, i've been using it for years because i love the versatility of it. but i would NEVER write a tune with it because the sound does get lost. try it...write a loop then bounce the parts down as seperate audio files, if you put them into logic or whatever you use you can instantly hear the difference without changing gain, compressing it or anything else for that matter............
plus the sequencer in reason is fucking shit!!!!! love the automation though, makes me feel like a machine...

as for ableton, i have a black book... everyone on this thread that has said they love it has just been entered into said book.
it's the type of program my dead cat could write a beat on, so fucking lame... im not even gonna start on people that use it to DJ

shapshankly · Post by **shapshankly** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:29 am

great, the ableton dj bashing begins.

wish people would just get over themselves about laptop dj'ing, surely it's about how good the set is, not how much you can wank over a slab of crackly vinyl?

shapshankly · Post by **shapshankly** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:33 am

nuskoolbreaks_head wrote:"possibly the worst thing for me, the lack of ability to just draw in a clip that you can then edit."

ummmm, do you even know how to operate live dude

ignorance is bliss

yes mate. go into arrange view. try drawing in a clip. i work in arrange view.

i'm fully aware that you could tab to the session view, copy the clip over to the arrange view, fiddle with the length, pat yourself on the back for being a smug cunt, get on with making some music.

it's pretty fucking ignorant to assume that i never bothered learning and using live before posting my criticisms. i'm not you, so please don't assume i'm as blatantly stupid.

foxington · Post by **foxington** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:07 am

DarK:Side wrote:as for ableton, i have a black book... everyone on this thread that has said they love it has just been entered into said book.
it's the type of program my dead cat could write a beat on, so fucking lame... im not even gonna start on people that use it to DJ

crikey you're an angry lil fella arent ya. surely the fact that it is quick and easy to use is a good thing? also i agree with shankly, i don't get all these people getting their knickers in a twist about ableton DJing, as though beatmatching is the most important thing about a DJ set. personally i think it's a fucking chore, it feels good to not have to do it and to be able to concentrate on other more interesting stuff. oh and if i'm in your black book of ableton users then i'm in some pretty illustrious company, step forward tipper, richie hawtin, etc etc...

shapshankly · Post by **shapshankly** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:40 am

strategy wrote:step forward tipper, richie hawtin, etc etc...

Shankly, Sasha (erm...)

:spiv:

Splashmash · Post by **Splashmash** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:22 pm

DarK:Side wrote:
as for ableton, i have a black book... everyone on this thread that has said they love it has just been entered into said book.
it's the type of program my dead cat could write a beat on, so fucking lame... im not even gonna start on people that use it to DJ

Hehe. I only use my nose on the keyboard to control Ableton. This compensates for the fact that it's so easy to write a beat on (in fact it makes it very difficult as you can't see the screen when your nose is on the keys) thus making me not lame. Hooray

El Huracan · Post by **El Huracan** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:28 pm

i have crack versions of 4 and 5. you dont knock a freebie

SubtleGestures · Post by **SubtleGestures** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:29 pm

"yes mate. go into arrange view. try drawing in a clip. i work in arrange view.

i'm fully aware that you could tab to the session view, copy the clip over to the arrange view, fiddle with the length"

Lets clarify before I go using 2 year old adjectives to describe how I think of you

Are you talking about drawing automation in a clip? Or are you talking about starting with a blank track, and wanting to simply draw in a blank clip, then fill in w/midi notes....?

Darkside - you're a huge dork - please leave the production forum and don't return. You use Reason, and you're trying to talk bad about Live

I bet your music's ultra fucking lame.

shapshankly · Post by **shapshankly** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:00 pm

SubtleGestures wrote:"yes mate. go into arrange view. try drawing in a clip. i work in arrange view.

i'm fully aware that you could tab to the session view, copy the clip over to the arrange view, fiddle with the length"

Lets clarify before I go using 2 year old adjectives to describe how I think of you

Are you talking about drawing automation in a clip? Or are you talking about starting with a blank track, and wanting to simply draw in a blank clip, then fill in w/midi notes....?

I'm talking about creating a clip. i'm fully aware of how to make automation work, how to use clip automation, how to use ghost clips to automate other things, how to use midi clips to control midi sequenced lighting rigs. trust me, been using live since version 3 so i know what it's about production wise.

i'm finished discussing this because somewhere along the line it got lost that i just work better in cubase, and that i love using live for a bit of an ideas jam, but mostly i use it for live performance.

i'm going to take some lessons off splashmash as well (though he doesn't know that yet) to see how to be more creative live, and i'm sure that he'll fill me in on any tiny thing about live that i don't already know.

CockNosher wrote:Darkside - you're a huge dork - please leave the production forum and don't return. You use Reason, and you're trying to talk bad about Live

I bet your music's ultra fucking lame.

we're still waiting to hear yours

bashing is funny.

SubtleGestures · Post by **SubtleGestures** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:14 pm

I posted 2 tracks in THIS forum less than a year ago - wtf are you talking about - you're still "waiting to hear mine"

I posted 2 - and NO ONE listened to shit, so that's why I don't post my music here. I stuck up a brilliant rmx I did of Cirrus' "Get Loose" and I think Walter was the only one that gave it a real feedback.

A couple others tried to talk shit about the drums when the drums in fact jam, so (fart) to receiving feedback from a predjudice forum.

"I'm talking about creating a clip."

Can't you just draw one in with the pencil tool like in Cubase?????

I'm on Live 3.04, so ?? to 4 & 5.....

nectarios · Post by **nectarios** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:22 pm

SubtleGestures wrote:I posted 2 tracks in THIS forum less than a year ago - wtf are you talking about - you're still "waiting to hear mine"

I posted 2 - and NO ONE listened to shit, so that's why I don't post my music here. I stuck up a brilliant rmx I did of Cirrus' "Get Loose" and I think Walter was the only one that gave it a real feedback.

A couple others tried to talk shit about the drums when the drums in fact jam, so (fart) to receiving feedback from a predjudice forum.

"I'm talking about creating a clip."

Can't you just draw one in with the pencil tool like in Cubase?????

I'm on Live 3.04, so ?? to 4 & 5.....

It isn't other people's fault your drums/tunes sounded shit. What's the point of asking for feedback when you are not ready to receive any?
The first step towards getting better, is to realise that you suck to start with. You refuse to take that first step.

shapshankly · Post by **shapshankly** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:36 pm

SubtleGestures wrote:I posted 2 tracks in THIS forum less than a year ago - wtf are you talking about - you're still "waiting to hear mine"

I posted 2 - and NO ONE listened to shit, so that's why I don't post my music here. I stuck up a brilliant rmx I did of Cirrus' "Get Loose" and I think Walter was the only one that gave it a real feedback.

"I'm talking about creating a clip."

Can't you just draw one in with the pencil tool like in Cubase?????

I'm on Live 3.04, so ?? to 4 & 5.....

no you can't mr live expert. try it when you get home.

and as for listening to your two tracks, i listen to, and try to comment on, pretty much everything that goes up in this forum, but about a year ago i wasn't really active. i'm no elephant and i know that my production has improved immensley since last year so i would wager that yours might have to.

i haven't been able to comment recently as i get snippits of time to read and quickly respond to posts, but not to listen to music. though i do occasionaly but forget to post my feedback.

Splashmash · Post by **Splashmash** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:43 pm

shapshankly wrote:
i'm going to take some lessons off splashmash as well (though he doesn't know that yet) to see how to be more creative live, and i'm sure that he'll fill me in on any tiny thing about live that i don't already know.

Ableton consultations £20/hr

or maybe just a pint...

shapshankly · Post by **shapshankly** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:41 pm

sold for a pint!!

lesson 1, furby abuse

Splashmash · Post by **Splashmash** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:55 pm

Lesson 2: The backwards game (possibly the greatest game ever!!)