Mixing Drums for breaks

shiftcrack · Post by **shiftcrack** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:56 pm

Good tips

hutson · Post by **hutson** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:28 am

SubtleGestures wrote:I LOVE low frequencies that pan (and that's a major "no no" for mono systems and vinyl).
...... I have to disagree dude, seriously. I do a LOT of my mixdown work in my headphones (I know, also another big no no, but I use my speakers for reference, I know: it's the exact flip-flop), but I can hear plenty of panning in the low end in my headphones.

it's a no no because low frequencies aren't directional. You won't create motion in a mix by panning the low end. you'll only be able to create phase discrepencies.

Also, the bass you hear in head phones isn't real. It's whats known as proximity effect. Almost any transducer minus an omni directional transducer will increase substantially on the low end as it moves closer to the source. Your ear being the transducer the headphone being the source. The driver of your headphones isn't large enough to create the bass line you think you are hearing. It isn't physically possible to create 60hz on a 4" driver. You are talking about 60hz, 60 Cycles per Second. The wave is travelling through the air at 1100 feet per second. 60 cycles into 1100 is about 18. Leaving you with an 18 foot wavelength coming from a 4" driver. Must be nice head phones.

But in honesty compression and reverb work well for electronic music. You aren't going to lose much dynamic range compressing samples. But you can shape them a bit with your attack and add a bit of funk on them. Especially if you time the attack and release in concordance with your tempo. and apply a bit of reverb over the entire kit to tie all the samples together, this will make them sound more like the same kit instead of a conglomerate of samples. Again, using the decay time of your Reverb unit you can create timing to make your snare decay right into your next sample. Using a bit of math you can create a very tight track with an apparent groove.
On another note SC'ing your bass to be keyed by your KD is very nice. It's not so much to make your KD stand up more as your bass to. It gives it a bit more delivery when your KD isn't present. Also it helps eliminate the masking between your KD and your Bass line. They are going to share frequencies and even with Eq'ing you're still going to get masking.

SubtleGestures · Post by **SubtleGestures** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:25 am

"and apply a bit of reverb over the entire kit to tie all the samples together, this will make them sound more like the same kit instead of a conglomerate of samples."

I've NEVER done this - this is purely a personal PREFERENCE dude..... why would you wanna do that to every track you made

- to each his own I guess

And as for my headphones "not hitting 60 HZ"

They go down to 20 dude. Most headphones in the $100+ range are capable of going 30 HZ and lower.

hutson · Post by **hutson** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:08 am

yeah you can do whatever you want or need to.

the only real use for verb over the whole kit is to make them sound like they are being played together.

as for the headphones. That is a completely false bottom end. What you are hearing isn't 30hz or 60hz. This is psychoaccoustics bro. Unfortunately for you and your headphones it's physically impossible for a driver in a headphone to produce 60hz.

you do realize the 3" driver is one inch away from your ear... and you are claiming to hear an 18 foot wavelength.

you would need a 2.5m resonator plus a driver capable of handling the power output demands of that wavelength to generate 30hz.
I think something about 100watts minimum.
but maybe you just have really big headphones.

SubtleGestures · Post by **SubtleGestures** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:25 am

"the only real use for verb over the whole kit is to make them sound like they are being played together."

exactly - why in the hell would I want that - I'm making electronic music dude, not rock

Whatever about the headphones dude - so when I'm previewing a bassline by ITSELF and I'm running it through a BP filter that's ONLY allowing 40 HZ through - and I hear the bass....

You tell me smartguy - what am I hearing.... there's nothing else playing except for the 40 HZ audio.... and I hear it.... if I'm not hearing 40 HZ, then what am I hearing

shapshankly · Post by **shapshankly** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:34 am

perhaps the 18ft wavelength has gone out the other side, bounced off the wall and come back in through the other ear?

SubtleGestures · Post by **SubtleGestures** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:42 am

Well, what am I hearing then

It makes no sense to tell me that I'm not hearing something when I shit sure am.

According to my above example: if it isn't 40 HZ I'm hearing, then wtf is it - some made up lala land frequency.

I tried looking up psychoacoustics and headphones and I didn't find anything interesting - looked for 5 min

Joebot · Post by **Joebot** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:48 am

resonant frequencies and harmonics you numpty!

SubtleGestures · Post by **SubtleGestures** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:56 am

don't fucking call me numpty

I'm hearing the bass @ 40 HZ

Joebot · Post by **Joebot** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:04 pm

no your not

SubtleGestures · Post by **SubtleGestures** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:25 pm

whatever dude

I'll do some research in the coming days.... and I'll get back to you on this.

If you guys are right - I'll kiss your ass and bark like a fox.

hutson · Post by **hutson** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:28 pm

I hope this satisfies you to some extent.

An auditory illusion is an illusion of hearing (sense), the sound equivalent of an optical illusion: the listener hears either sounds which are not present in the stimulus, or "impossible" sounds. In short, audio illusions highlight areas where the human ear and brain, as organic, makeshift tools, differ from perfect audio receptors (for better or for worse).

missing fundamental is a missing fundamental frequency which higher frequencies refer to. For example, when a piano note has a pitch of 100 Hz, it will consist of frequency components that are all integer multiples of that value (e.g. 100, 200, 300, 400, 500.... Hz). However, low quality stereo speakers will not produce low frequencies, and so in our example, the 100 Hz component may be missing. Nevertheless, a pitch corresponding to the fundamental will still be heard. It was once thought that this was because the missing fundamental was replaced by distortions, introduced by the physics of the ear. However, experiments subsequently showed that when a noise was added, which would have masked these distortions had they been present, listeners still heard a pitch corresponding to the missing fundamental. It is now widely accepted that the brain processes the information present in the overtones to calculate what the "missing" fundamental is. The precise way in which it does so is still a matter of hot debate, but the processing seems to be based on the timing of neural impulses in the auditory nerve. This very concept of missing fundamental being reproduced based on the overtones in the tone is nowadays used to create the illusion of bass. By processing certain overtones selectively, a rich bass effect can be created using the small speakers which cannot produce lower frequency components below 100 Hz. While speakers produce tones above 100 Hz, the processed bass overtones compel the brain to replace the missing fundamental bass signals, creating the illusion of bass effect.

Referenced from http://psychoacoustics.foosquare.com/

Joebot · Post by **Joebot** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:31 pm

SubtleGestures wrote:whatever dude

I'll do some research in the coming days.... and I'll get back to you on this.

If you guys are right - I'll kiss your ass and bark like a fox.

better get practicing your barking

Guilty As Charged · Post by **Guilty As Charged** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:10 am

SubtleGestures wrote:I know jack shit about compression.

interesting that the digital comps and analogue comps sound so different - I wouldn't know, because I really try to stay away from comp at all costs.

Tamp - You haven't been on here long, I talk out of my ass a lot, and this thread was no different.

What do you use then ???? I am very curious ?

Guilty As Charged · Post by **Guilty As Charged** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:12 am

SubtleGestures wrote:I appreciate the tip.

Really, I just make sure my drums are sounding fat before I run my entire song through my mastering toy using limiting, and notching out 20 HZ and below.

After that, my songs come out sounding like anything I've got on vinyl... super loud, solid, and full.

With the right mastering tool - there is no need to use comp on seperate tracks in the song (imo anyway), because if you get all of your elements cracking initially, then run everything through a quality limiter at the end - you should end up with a result that is = to anything pro out there.

each to their own though - I totally hear where you're coming from, I just don't work that way iz all

Let's all hear these tunes then - This was once a good thread ...

Guilty As Charged · Post by **Guilty As Charged** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:14 am

SubtleGestures wrote:"and apply a bit of reverb over the entire kit to tie all the samples together, this will make them sound more like the same kit instead of a conglomerate of samples."

I've NEVER done this - this is purely a personal PREFERENCE dude..... why would you wanna do that to every track you made - to each his own I guess

And as for my headphones "not hitting 60 HZ"

They go down to 20 dude. Most headphones in the $100+ range are capable of going 30 HZ and lower.

Mince mince mince - Man you truly have not idea about anything ???

hutson · Post by **hutson** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:49 am

mmmm brains

SubtleGestures · Post by **SubtleGestures** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:46 am

I know my ears are hearing something iz all I care about so (farts) to all this science.

If I BP a bassline and only let 40 HZ go through - and if that shit is singing in the headphones, then I know what it's going to sound like on a speaker system. That's all the hell that matters.

I'm not sure what we're arguing about here, so I'll just leave it at that.

hutson · Post by **hutson** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:06 pm

Arf??

stoefln · Post by **stoefln** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:59 pm

hutson wrote:yeah you can do whatever you want or need to.

the only real use for verb over the whole kit is to make them sound like they are being played together.

as for the headphones. That is a completely false bottom end. What you are hearing isn't 30hz or 60hz. This is psychoaccoustics bro. Unfortunately for you and your headphones it's physically impossible for a driver in a headphone to produce 60hz.

you do realize the 3" driver is one inch away from your ear... and you are claiming to hear an 18 foot wavelength.

you would need a 2.5m resonator plus a driver capable of handling the power output demands of that wavelength to generate 30hz.
I think something about 100watts minimum.
but maybe you just have really big headphones.

as far as i know, you dont need to have 16 foot of space for transfering a wave (this is just for resonance,...)
some headphones are able to emit down to 20 hz i think, these (very subtle) waves can be transfered to your eardrum cause there isnt much pressure equalisation when you are usin good closed headphones...