it is what it is, theres still ways to get loud stuff sounding good

its not really LOUD or quiet

there are also places in between

personally i like 2db shy of LOUD AS FUCK

its still pretty fucking loud tho, , just a but spikey, not flatlined,

its all mp3 and shitty little speakers now anyway

although tbf anyone who plays an mp3 in the dance is a cnut IMHO

its also true that it used to sound like something had happened when the kick drum came in on a big rig

_________________
Precision Cuts Soundcloud
Precision Cuts Favourite mullet-sporting-paranoia-inducing-mindfuck

I don't see why you'd want to sacrifice dynamics over loudness at all, not even just a little bit.

I run a fairly decent sized/quality soundsystem (IMO) so maybe I'm coming at it from a different perspective than the majority of the market they are aiming at, but surely the ultimate aim is for these tunes to sound good on the dancefloor and most of the files I buy I'd be loathe to run through the rig because of the dissapointment they'd be.

There are a lot of things I don't miss about vinyl but at least most of the tunes pressed on wax were mastered relatively well. I guess that's not the format though and more a sign of the times.

*grumble grumble whinge whinge*

tunes mostly get auditioned on beatport thru shite laptop speakers , quite a lot of people actually pay actual money for beatport downloads

people dont buy teh vinyl

you are right of course but things change

heres a question for you, how much in your opinion do you ever perceive stereo information , panning etc thru a sound system??

in some clubs i have heard it and in others not, mostly these days it all sounds like a massive garbled mess

as well as mixing loud people are mixing reeeaAAAAAALLY wide, again, sounds great on laptop speakerrs / earbuds

_________________
Precision Cuts Soundcloud
Precision Cuts Favourite mullet-sporting-paranoia-inducing-mindfuck

Referencing on laptop speakers, fair enough, mixing for them, that's just wrong. Why bother with dance music if you don't have any low response?

It's like the bastards you hear on the bus or train listening to music through their cellphones with the level so loud it's harshly distorting, clearly they're appreciating music and giving it the respect it deserves

_________________

afaik the rise of the overused harsh square wave bass pretty much coincided with the rise of mp3/ipod/beatport

harsh square wave bass will come thru on your laptop AND your phone...........

_________________
Precision Cuts Soundcloud
Precision Cuts Favourite mullet-sporting-paranoia-inducing-mindfuck

yes but most people making bass music, myself included, couldn't give a toss if it sounds good on a phone.

its for sound systems, not laptops. the argument that things should sound good on a laptop is bollocks really. it needs to sound good at source, thats all that matters.

_________________
Strontium Music



SOUNDCLOUD | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TUMBLR

Extreme and obvious panning yes, but as for hearing a quality stereo mix, no I don't think it's often perceived. In most venues you can always aim to set up a system to sound optimal in a limited zone, particularly outside, but there are going to be people closer to one 'stack' than another and when the walls come in to play then obviously this starts to cause problems.

Low frequencies will almost always be summed anyway, but often system engineers will sum the mid and high frequencies to make it simpler to manage. So in a lot of cases the stereo aspect is removed.

It goes back to same old argument of the common party goer not actually giving a shit anyway. 95% of people just want loud, bass heavy music to stomp around to and often don't care, or worse, wouldn't even notice the difference.

that'll account for the lack of sales then

_________________
Precision Cuts Soundcloud
Precision Cuts Favourite mullet-sporting-paranoia-inducing-mindfuck

I thought as much, someone needs to explain this to the people who make softsynths and sample libraries

this is obv another contributing factor to the "wall of mush" sound that we have now

everything is sidechained from the kick and then spread so wide it dissapears on mono, leaving only a kick drum, a bit of sub and some white noise

hooray for progress

_________________
Precision Cuts Soundcloud
Precision Cuts Favourite mullet-sporting-paranoia-inducing-mindfuck

It's funny. 7 years ago when I was mastering stuff we were looking to make things wider. These days 8 out of 10 tracks I'm actually doing more to boost the mid-channel and give the center of things more weight. So many stereo effects and synth patches out there just push things WAY out to the sides.

_________________
InnerPortalStudio.com Electronic Music Mastering & Mixdowns. Click for details!

Not really. Most people who buy music because they want to play it in clubs know better than to buy it just because it sounds good on a laptop. I never preview music on some shitty laptop and buy it on thats basis. Never have.

If you're saying that music has got really raspy and bass light and ugly in the top end because of laptops or phones then I dont agree, its because producers who dont know what they're doing are mimicing artists who have blown up who have some of those characteristics in their sound but that aren't actually bass light.

Like Skrillex, for example, whose music is really well produced and sounds amazing loud. Not so much Flux Pavilion but who seems to have done rather well anyway making similar stuff etc etc and the trickle down effect applies all the way to the people at the bottom end of that musical spectrum who are just making ear bleeders.

This argument about mixing things to suit all systems of playback is pretty counter intuitive IMO, and is basically the ME's job. Sure thats fine if you're making pop, because that mainly gets played on radio and occasionally in clubs (and sounds horrible when it is) but I dont worry about any of that stuff, and why would I? My stuff, if it sounds good in the studio, invariably sounds less interesting on a shittier playback system, but am I to over-compensate for the sound in my studio to make up for what the shitty system lacks? I dont think so. And if you're suggesting that by doing so, that that would have a positive impact on sales, then I think thats ludicrous.

_________________
Strontium Music



SOUNDCLOUD | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TUMBLR

its not the mastering guys job, they are supposed to add the last 10% or less

if your bass isnt coming thru on smaller speakers then the ME will have to make compromises with the kik to make that happen

your mix should work anywhere, there are ways

skrillex also comes thru on laptop speakers as well as on a big system, ie it sounds good on shitty playback systems s well as in the studio

thats why it works/sells so damn well

people consume music in lots more ways than in the club

_________________
Precision Cuts Soundcloud
Precision Cuts Favourite mullet-sporting-paranoia-inducing-mindfuck

they do Tam, I understand that, but I dont necessarily believe that something that's been geared to sound fabulous on a pair of laptop speakers is conversely going to sound that fabulous on a big rig in fact what I'm saying is that the opposite is true.

Tipper for example. Can you hear all the bass from a Tipper song on your laptop? Doubt it. Is Tipper not amazeballs in a club? Yes.

If anything - for music which is intentionally going to be played loud, surely you want less top end not more?

_________________
Strontium Music



SOUNDCLOUD | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TUMBLR

I'm not having a go at you Tam BTW and I'm sorry if I'm ranting.

_________________
Strontium Music



SOUNDCLOUD | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TUMBLR

I love it when you rant implantsalex

_________________
Precision Cuts Soundcloud
Precision Cuts Favourite mullet-sporting-paranoia-inducing-mindfuck