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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:07 pm 
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superbrew wrote:
hubie wrote:
superbrew wrote:
Maybe out of city housing could be considered as something to offer families who do want to get out of the gang culture but cant due to fear, as part of being able to do so are conditions in place.

Perhaps if you disperse the people in built up city areas all over the country that would surely take some of the extreme pressure that schools in places like Peckham for example have to take. Having so many poor angry people in one place is going to be impossible to fix.

It must be impossible to teach in those conditions. Sounds a bit radical but London is just too over populated anyway.

Have said before as well that the national curriculum is bullshit too, if your not bright academically then your made to feel like a retard from an early age and you never catch up.

Should be schools that are more focused on more manual job skills alongside existing subjects. Far easier to get a kid interested in math when they are learning about engineering and see it actually used in context with a career.

What you're suggesting is basically rural ghettos and that's not a very good idea - you're essentially marginalising a whole class of people, uprooting them from their homes and expecting them to all get along in a marginalised community. See Australia and possibly South Africa for good examples of that going very very wrong indeed.

I agree with your point about schools though, well said :bo:



I think its more about the choice to do that if you want to. Loads of people say in these communities there is no way out, so at least if you give them an opportunity to make it work somewhere else.

Im not saying then put 1000 peckham residants in say Wycombe in the same place...is that what your saying? I litteraly mean small amounts of people all over the country. No doubt im probably wrong on this one :lol:

I can't see how that would work though. For one thing there's the issue of uprooting people from their homes. That alone would stop most people from wanting to move. If that wasn't such a big deal for people they would probably have already moved under their own free will. Do you think Palestinians enjoy getting bombed all the time in Gaza? That stay there for a reason. Extreme example, I know, but you see my point.

Also, what is there to tempt people away from where they are now? A smaller town with less opportunities and fewer Nandos? And then there's the matter of moving somewhere awful like Wales or the North... you might as well send them to Australia or something... oh that's been done before hasn't it

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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:16 pm 
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If you live in a council house then the only way you can exchange to another area off your own back is to get someone else who wants to live in your area (I think) or go on to a huge waiting list.

So someone with a council house in Wycombe wouldn't probably fancy peckham to much as an example so wouldnt be very easy at all.

Now though there are lots of new cheap homes going up all over the place and they have to offer a select amount to council tenants.

If the government gave priority to people in poor areas to move first its obv not great for the local people but if your looking long term then might be an option.

The only other thing I can think of are military schools out in the dessert in afganistan, if a kid causes trouble then off they go :)

Should also be part of the community service for this rioting, 200 hours in Afghanistan.


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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Suggestions it's the wake for Mark Duggan in Camden tonight, which may explain the reports of 20+ riot vans and helicopter in camden on twitter.

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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:20 pm 
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Poor Jim Duggan :ho:

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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:23 pm 
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superbrew wrote:
If you live in a council house then the only way you can exchange to another area off your own back is to get someone else who wants to live in your area (I think) or go on to a huge waiting list.

So someone with a council house in Wycombe wouldn't probably fancy peckham to much as an example so wouldnt be very easy at all.

Now though there are lots of new cheap homes going up all over the place and they have to offer a select amount to council tenants.

If the government gave priority to people in poor areas to move first its obv not great for the local people but if your looking long term then might be an option.

The only other thing I can think of are military schools out in the dessert in afganistan, if a kid causes trouble then off they go :)

Should also be part of the community service for this rioting, 200 hours in Afghanistan.

Hmmm that all sounds too simplistic to me, especially the Afghanistan bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:25 pm 
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The Network for Police Monitoring will make a complaint to the Metropolitan police after one of its volunteers was arrested and beaten by police while monitoring the policing of disturbances in Enfield on the night of Sunday 7th August.

Along with two others, Taherali Gulamhussein was stopped and searched by police under section 60 powers, which gives them the right to search for weapons. The police found no weapon, nor any other item that gave them cause for concern. Despite this he was arrested and subsequently beaten in the back of a police van. Taherali has described how, in the course of the search, he was kicked and punched in the chest and thigh, and that his head was smashed against a wall.
He has also said that after being arrested and placed in the police van he was held down and kicked and punched repeatedly to the face, head and legs. He was left with cuts and abrasions across his face, a suspected fractured nose, bleeding lips, and a sprained thigh muscle. He was held for three hours, and afterwards received treatment for his injuries at hospital.

Taherali and two colleagues were in Enfield to monitor the policing of disturbances in the town and neighbouring areas. “Things were quiet, and we were walking down the street towards our car”, said one of the police monitors present, “but as we walked by the side of a police van, there was suddenly mayhem.” “The three of us were wrestled to the ground, handcuffed and searched. It was never made clear why Taher was arrested. The only possible reason I can see is that, while I was carrying identification, he was not. I think he was arrested just so they could find out who he was. That is not a lawful reason for arrest when they had no reason to think that we had done anything wrong. The next time I saw Taherali, it was obvious he had been beaten. His face and forehead were cut and bruised, and he was bleeding around his nose and mouth. The question is, if the police felt they could get away with beating up one young black man in the back of their van, how many other times have they done it? And they wonder why there is such anger towards the police?”

Taherali said “Most black people and young people have their personal stories of this violent racist, ageist aggression. The riots that have happened must be seen in this context, and the context tackled full on.”

http://networkforpolicemonitoring.org.uk/?p=349

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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:26 pm 
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Quote: You couldn't say you hadn't seen it coming. All day, tension had been mounting as Daniels, the man Britain invariably looks to in times of grave crisis, publicly wrestled to find a solution :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:27 pm 
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:lol: I like his comment about 'wide angle tasers' to deal with large crowds at once :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:31 pm 
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A council tenant whose son was involved in the London riots is believed to be the first in the country to be served with an eviction notice.

Wandsworth council are in the process of applying for an eviction notice for the tenant and their son, who has been charged in connection with the Battersea riots, reported the Wandsworth Guardian.

The family, who face the prospect of losing their council owned home, cannot be named for legal reasons.

During a statement to the Commons yesterday David Cameron spoke about using evictions as a "further sanction" beyond the criminal justice system.

The prime minister said: "Local authorities and landlords already have tough powers to evict the perpetrators from social housing.

"Some local authorities are already doing this. I want to see others follow their lead and we will consider whether these powers need to be strengthened further."

The ultimate decision over the potential eviction will be made by a judge.

Wandsworth Council leader, Ravi Govindia told the Wandsworth Guardian: "Most residents on our housing estates are decent law-abiding citizens who will have been sickened at the scenes they witnessed on their TV screens this week. Many will have seen their places of work trashed at the hands of these rioters.

"As much as anything else we owe it to them to send out a strong signal that this kind of violence will not be tolerated."

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2011/08/ ... -over-riot

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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Attempting to disperse classes or ethnic groups has been tried before many times throughout history. Over time, the rich move away from their poorer neighbours to live in a perceived better area as gentrification and ruin undulate through random areas driven by resources, work or social movements. Even if you shuffled all the house holds around the country to evenly disperse all manor of dividing characteristics, human nature and the need to identify with your neighbours will slowly re-organise everything back to the way it was.
The solution is to narrow the inequity that exists to the point that differences in wealth don't necessarily correspond to larger changes in the quality of life. Pretty much the exact social system that is currently being dismantled by the current government. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:34 pm 
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shaman wrote:
Quote:
A council tenant whose son was involved in the London riots is believed to be the first in the country to be served with an eviction notice.

Wandsworth council are in the process of applying for an eviction notice for the tenant and their son, who has been charged in connection with the Battersea riots, reported the Wandsworth Guardian.

The family, who face the prospect of losing their council owned home, cannot be named for legal reasons.

During a statement to the Commons yesterday David Cameron spoke about using evictions as a "further sanction" beyond the criminal justice system.

The prime minister said: "Local authorities and landlords already have tough powers to evict the perpetrators from social housing.

"Some local authorities are already doing this. I want to see others follow their lead and we will consider whether these powers need to be strengthened further."

The ultimate decision over the potential eviction will be made by a judge.

Wandsworth Council leader, Ravi Govindia told the Wandsworth Guardian: "Most residents on our housing estates are decent law-abiding citizens who will have been sickened at the scenes they witnessed on their TV screens this week. Many will have seen their places of work trashed at the hands of these rioters.

"As much as anything else we owe it to them to send out a strong signal that this kind of violence will not be tolerated."

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2011/08/ ... -over-riot

:?

And then what? Will they be sent to Wales or somewhere as Superbrew suggested? Or will they just live on the streets? Fucking madness. I don't think the govt or Wandsworth Council have thought that through at all :x

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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:37 pm 
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hubie wrote:
:lol: I like his comment about 'wide angle tasers' to deal with large crowds at once :lol:


:lol: Fuck I am Paul Daniels, Admitidly I did say just spray them with a marker that comes up under UV, but perm marker that's class, Id go with purple.

That's the best article ive read in a long time :)


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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:38 pm 
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hubie wrote:
shaman wrote:
Quote:
A council tenant whose son was involved in the London riots is believed to be the first in the country to be served with an eviction notice.

Wandsworth council are in the process of applying for an eviction notice for the tenant and their son, who has been charged in connection with the Battersea riots, reported the Wandsworth Guardian.

The family, who face the prospect of losing their council owned home, cannot be named for legal reasons.

During a statement to the Commons yesterday David Cameron spoke about using evictions as a "further sanction" beyond the criminal justice system.

The prime minister said: "Local authorities and landlords already have tough powers to evict the perpetrators from social housing.

"Some local authorities are already doing this. I want to see others follow their lead and we will consider whether these powers need to be strengthened further."

The ultimate decision over the potential eviction will be made by a judge.

Wandsworth Council leader, Ravi Govindia told the Wandsworth Guardian: "Most residents on our housing estates are decent law-abiding citizens who will have been sickened at the scenes they witnessed on their TV screens this week. Many will have seen their places of work trashed at the hands of these rioters.

"As much as anything else we owe it to them to send out a strong signal that this kind of violence will not be tolerated."

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2011/08/ ... -over-riot

:?

And then what? Will they be sent to Wales or somewhere as Superbrew suggested? Or will they just live on the streets? Fucking madness. I don't think the govt or Wandsworth Council have thought that through at all :x


Could just be fake to try and scare these people - unnamed etc


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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:38 pm 
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hubie wrote:
shaman wrote:
Quote:
A council tenant whose son was involved in the London riots is believed to be the first in the country to be served with an eviction notice.

Wandsworth council are in the process of applying for an eviction notice for the tenant and their son, who has been charged in connection with the Battersea riots, reported the Wandsworth Guardian.

The family, who face the prospect of losing their council owned home, cannot be named for legal reasons.

During a statement to the Commons yesterday David Cameron spoke about using evictions as a "further sanction" beyond the criminal justice system.

The prime minister said: "Local authorities and landlords already have tough powers to evict the perpetrators from social housing.

"Some local authorities are already doing this. I want to see others follow their lead and we will consider whether these powers need to be strengthened further."

The ultimate decision over the potential eviction will be made by a judge.

Wandsworth Council leader, Ravi Govindia told the Wandsworth Guardian: "Most residents on our housing estates are decent law-abiding citizens who will have been sickened at the scenes they witnessed on their TV screens this week. Many will have seen their places of work trashed at the hands of these rioters.

"As much as anything else we owe it to them to send out a strong signal that this kind of violence will not be tolerated."

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2011/08/ ... -over-riot

:?

And then what? Will they be sent to Wales or somewhere as Superbrew suggested? Or will they just live on the streets? Fucking madness. I don't think the govt or Wandsworth Council have thought that through at all :x


Good to see that what we have learnt from this is that it is best to ostricise and isolate sections of society! Brilliant, well done those idiots in charge.

I expect they are hoping to start a proper revolution!!! :|


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 Post subject: Re: Tottenham riot!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:47 pm 
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danphobik wrote:
Attempting to disperse classes or ethnic groups has been tried before many times throughout history. Over time, the rich move away from their poorer neighbours to live in a perceived better area as gentrification and ruin undulate through random areas driven by resources, work or social movements. Even if you shuffled all the house holds around the country to evenly disperse all manor of dividing characteristics, human nature and the need to identify with your neighbours will slowly re-organise everything back to the way it was.
The solution is to narrow the inequity that exists to the point that differences in wealth don't necessarily correspond to larger changes in the quality of life. Pretty much the exact social system that is currently being dismantled by the current government. :(

I agree.

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